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	<title>Comments on: How American Cursive Appears to the British</title>
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	<description>Issues facing an American teacher and her students in the Middle East, by Mary Mimouna</description>
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		<title>By: Uly</title>
		<link>http://elementaryteacher.wordpress.com/2007/10/28/how-american-cursive-appears-to-the-british/#comment-1863</link>
		<dc:creator>Uly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:12:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;i&gt;The use of handwriting is becoming unnecessary after school/college/university. &lt;/i&gt;

My handwriting is atrocious due to a combination of left-handedness and fine motor issues. I type much faster than I could ever write, and painlessly as well - consequently, I write as rarely as possible.

Which still means I write quite a bit. I don&#039;t type and print my shopping lists, I don&#039;t type out short notes to my niece&#039;s teachers, I don&#039;t type out reminders on post-its, I don&#039;t type out notes in the margins of cookbooks....

And I consciously make an effort to type more than write (or even speak, some days)!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The use of handwriting is becoming unnecessary after school/college/university. </i></p>
<p>My handwriting is atrocious due to a combination of left-handedness and fine motor issues. I type much faster than I could ever write, and painlessly as well &#8211; consequently, I write as rarely as possible.</p>
<p>Which still means I write quite a bit. I don&#8217;t type and print my shopping lists, I don&#8217;t type out short notes to my niece&#8217;s teachers, I don&#8217;t type out reminders on post-its, I don&#8217;t type out notes in the margins of cookbooks&#8230;.</p>
<p>And I consciously make an effort to type more than write (or even speak, some days)!</p>
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		<title>By: Saz</title>
		<link>http://elementaryteacher.wordpress.com/2007/10/28/how-american-cursive-appears-to-the-british/#comment-1861</link>
		<dc:creator>Saz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 12:11:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elementaryteacher.wordpress.com/2007/10/28/how-american-cursive-appears-to-the-british/#comment-1861</guid>
		<description>This is very interesting, I just came across it in my research for my dissertation. Being Welsh (British!) things were very basic for us. So long as you could write the letters and attempt to join them up, that&#039;s all that mattered. I think the reasoning for this is most definitely that content is more important than presentation. Personally, I developed my handwriting to be more &#039;cursive&#039; I suppose you could call it that to an extent. A lot of my letters are joined in a &#039;pretty&#039; way and exactly the reason for cursive, that it&#039;s for speed. But I guess I&#039;d have to agree that people need to develop their own style of writing to feel comfortable with writing. My boyfriend mostly writes in capitals because he finds it easier, so what&#039;s wrong with that? The key is to legibility and content of what you are writing, even though in my opinion good handwriting should be high on the importance rating! I&#039;m a bit wary of this battle of American versus British, I don&#039;t quite understand where it has stemmed from, but nevertheless, I won&#039;t get involved. I just don&#039;t quite understand, you could be here for your whole life debating things like grammar and punctuation, again isn&#039;t it about the content of what someone is saying? You could always argue that things like that are changing with the demand for shorter, quicker opinions on the internet and texting? The use of handwriting is becoming unnecessary after school/college/university. Personally I think that is sad, and to learn an artistic form of writing would be lovely to keep going, but unfortunately we have to move on!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is very interesting, I just came across it in my research for my dissertation. Being Welsh (British!) things were very basic for us. So long as you could write the letters and attempt to join them up, that&#8217;s all that mattered. I think the reasoning for this is most definitely that content is more important than presentation. Personally, I developed my handwriting to be more &#8216;cursive&#8217; I suppose you could call it that to an extent. A lot of my letters are joined in a &#8216;pretty&#8217; way and exactly the reason for cursive, that it&#8217;s for speed. But I guess I&#8217;d have to agree that people need to develop their own style of writing to feel comfortable with writing. My boyfriend mostly writes in capitals because he finds it easier, so what&#8217;s wrong with that? The key is to legibility and content of what you are writing, even though in my opinion good handwriting should be high on the importance rating! I&#8217;m a bit wary of this battle of American versus British, I don&#8217;t quite understand where it has stemmed from, but nevertheless, I won&#8217;t get involved. I just don&#8217;t quite understand, you could be here for your whole life debating things like grammar and punctuation, again isn&#8217;t it about the content of what someone is saying? You could always argue that things like that are changing with the demand for shorter, quicker opinions on the internet and texting? The use of handwriting is becoming unnecessary after school/college/university. Personally I think that is sad, and to learn an artistic form of writing would be lovely to keep going, but unfortunately we have to move on!</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://elementaryteacher.wordpress.com/2007/10/28/how-american-cursive-appears-to-the-british/#comment-1777</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 05:14:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elementaryteacher.wordpress.com/2007/10/28/how-american-cursive-appears-to-the-british/#comment-1777</guid>
		<description>Thank you for your post. It was really interesting. 

I happen to be an American of Asian decent. I was born in 1981. My parents were immigrants, but I was born and raised here. 

I grew up in the Nevada, which is next to California for anyone reading this who isn&#039;t familiar with Nevada.

I remember having to practice writing in print and then later in cursive in elementary school, although I can&#039;t remember which grades. Although I wouldn&#039;t say that my handwriting is really horrible, alas, I was never really good at handwriting. I found your blog post by accident because I was searching for some book reviews on books for adults like me who want to improve their handwriting. I also wanted to see if any of the books might be good for my little brother, currently 16 years old and in high school. I thought my handwriting could use some improvement, but at least I never have trouble reading it. My little brother, on the other hand, can&#039;t even read his own handwriting sometimes. 

Upon realizing that my little brother&#039;s handwriting is so bad, I wondered if changes in the way handwriting is taught might have played a role. After all, we both live in and grew up in the same city and went to schools in the same school district. When I was in high school I remember volunteering a little bit of my time each week at a local elementary school. I recall the 3rd Grade teacher I was assigned to help, Ms. Penrose, lamenting that they (the school district) had changed the style/font of the print letters on the worksheets and examples they give students to practice writing their ABCs. Apparently, the previous style was D&#039;Nealian, whose print style was just a little curvy and slanty. I think that was the style of print I was taught. The style the school district had switched to was Zaner Bloser, whose print style has no slant and was described to me as ball and stick. Think of the letter be as being composed of one long stick and one ball in the lower half of the stick, and think of the letter a as being composed of one ball and a short stick on the right of the ball. I remember Ms Penrose lamenting this because she believed that D&#039;Nelian style print better prepare students for cursive. Perhaps she was right; I can&#039;t be sure.

But I do know this. My little brother, now 16, doesn&#039;t remember how to write cursive and his print is barely legible. 

Although I think handwriting is still an important skill, I&#039;ve read that some people believe it is fast becoming irrelevant. Who knows? Perhaps they&#039;re not far off. We almost always have the option to type want we want to communicate in writing nowadays. 

Still, I wish to improve my handwriting, if it is still possible at my age. I&#039;m considering buying a book called &quot;Fix it Write&quot; by Nan Jay Barchowsky. I don&#039;t know if it is any good. I came across by chance. Has anyone heard of it? I think it teaches some style called italic writing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your post. It was really interesting. </p>
<p>I happen to be an American of Asian decent. I was born in 1981. My parents were immigrants, but I was born and raised here. </p>
<p>I grew up in the Nevada, which is next to California for anyone reading this who isn&#8217;t familiar with Nevada.</p>
<p>I remember having to practice writing in print and then later in cursive in elementary school, although I can&#8217;t remember which grades. Although I wouldn&#8217;t say that my handwriting is really horrible, alas, I was never really good at handwriting. I found your blog post by accident because I was searching for some book reviews on books for adults like me who want to improve their handwriting. I also wanted to see if any of the books might be good for my little brother, currently 16 years old and in high school. I thought my handwriting could use some improvement, but at least I never have trouble reading it. My little brother, on the other hand, can&#8217;t even read his own handwriting sometimes. </p>
<p>Upon realizing that my little brother&#8217;s handwriting is so bad, I wondered if changes in the way handwriting is taught might have played a role. After all, we both live in and grew up in the same city and went to schools in the same school district. When I was in high school I remember volunteering a little bit of my time each week at a local elementary school. I recall the 3rd Grade teacher I was assigned to help, Ms. Penrose, lamenting that they (the school district) had changed the style/font of the print letters on the worksheets and examples they give students to practice writing their ABCs. Apparently, the previous style was D&#8217;Nealian, whose print style was just a little curvy and slanty. I think that was the style of print I was taught. The style the school district had switched to was Zaner Bloser, whose print style has no slant and was described to me as ball and stick. Think of the letter be as being composed of one long stick and one ball in the lower half of the stick, and think of the letter a as being composed of one ball and a short stick on the right of the ball. I remember Ms Penrose lamenting this because she believed that D&#8217;Nelian style print better prepare students for cursive. Perhaps she was right; I can&#8217;t be sure.</p>
<p>But I do know this. My little brother, now 16, doesn&#8217;t remember how to write cursive and his print is barely legible. </p>
<p>Although I think handwriting is still an important skill, I&#8217;ve read that some people believe it is fast becoming irrelevant. Who knows? Perhaps they&#8217;re not far off. We almost always have the option to type want we want to communicate in writing nowadays. </p>
<p>Still, I wish to improve my handwriting, if it is still possible at my age. I&#8217;m considering buying a book called &#8220;Fix it Write&#8221; by Nan Jay Barchowsky. I don&#8217;t know if it is any good. I came across by chance. Has anyone heard of it? I think it teaches some style called italic writing.</p>
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		<title>By: elementaryteacher</title>
		<link>http://elementaryteacher.wordpress.com/2007/10/28/how-american-cursive-appears-to-the-british/#comment-1772</link>
		<dc:creator>elementaryteacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:24:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elementaryteacher.wordpress.com/2007/10/28/how-american-cursive-appears-to-the-british/#comment-1772</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Luke, thank you for your interesting comments.

Having lived overseas for two decades, I can testify to the fact that it takes quite some time to be able to &quot;hear&quot; the different accents in a language.  In defense of the British (I&#039;m American), even though British and Americans technically speak the same language, it&#039;s only after living overseas for a number of years that I can now hear the &quot;similarities&quot; between ALL different accents in the United States.  To us, as Americans, we hear the differences, but the reason some British don&#039;t &quot;hear&quot; those differences is that they are instead hearing the similarities .  I know you are wondering what these similarites are (because you don&#039;t hear them yourself).  Americans speak very much in the FRONT of the mouth (ALL regions of America); whereas British speak very much in the BACK of the mouth, and open the mouth, and move the jaw much more than Americans do.  Therefore, for British not used to American accents (meaning hearing different accents for up to a few years) they don&#039;t HEAR the differences as we do.

I live in a French-speaking country, and it took me five-six years to be able to &quot;hear&quot; all the different French accents, which I can now hear quite well.  But I didn&#039;t hear them at all in the beginning.  I just knew that some people were easier/more difficult to understand, but I didn&#039;t know why.

Your comments about the hand movement are interesting.  I think the arm movements are much more important for some people than others, and I think part of that depends upon what kind of learner you are (visual, auditory, kinesthetic).  I&#039;ve found with kinesthetic learners that the arm movements are most important, less so with other learning styles (I found I&#039;m an auditory learner, myself).  

I do have to agree that the pencil grip is most importan.  However, having taught extensively in both Kindergarten and Grade 3, this skill has to be properly taught in Kindergarten, it it does not appear that many teachers these days are paying attention to that particular skill.  By the time kids get to Grade 3 (or even Grade Two or Grade One) it&#039;s often extremely difficult to change the ingrained pencil-grip style.  I finally gave up on it, after a decade of working with kids on it in Grade 3.  I instead showed them and made suggestions, but if they were resistant to changing it at that point, I just tried finally to work with them from there instead of concentrating on that problem.  Unfortunately, a lot of Kindergarten teachers are just passing out pencils and paying no attention at ALL to teaching correct pencil grip in the first place.  I taught it well at that age, as well as the turned paper, and my five-year-old students mastered it well.  Then I moved to Grade 3, where the same students I&#039;d taught came through again.  By that time, their Britishand Australian  teachers in-between had put their papers straight on the desk, taught them a different style of printing, and I basically had to fix everything all over again.  But we did manage it!&lt;/em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Luke, thank you for your interesting comments.</p>
<p>Having lived overseas for two decades, I can testify to the fact that it takes quite some time to be able to &#8220;hear&#8221; the different accents in a language.  In defense of the British (I&#8217;m American), even though British and Americans technically speak the same language, it&#8217;s only after living overseas for a number of years that I can now hear the &#8220;similarities&#8221; between ALL different accents in the United States.  To us, as Americans, we hear the differences, but the reason some British don&#8217;t &#8220;hear&#8221; those differences is that they are instead hearing the similarities .  I know you are wondering what these similarites are (because you don&#8217;t hear them yourself).  Americans speak very much in the FRONT of the mouth (ALL regions of America); whereas British speak very much in the BACK of the mouth, and open the mouth, and move the jaw much more than Americans do.  Therefore, for British not used to American accents (meaning hearing different accents for up to a few years) they don&#8217;t HEAR the differences as we do.</p>
<p>I live in a French-speaking country, and it took me five-six years to be able to &#8220;hear&#8221; all the different French accents, which I can now hear quite well.  But I didn&#8217;t hear them at all in the beginning.  I just knew that some people were easier/more difficult to understand, but I didn&#8217;t know why.</p>
<p>Your comments about the hand movement are interesting.  I think the arm movements are much more important for some people than others, and I think part of that depends upon what kind of learner you are (visual, auditory, kinesthetic).  I&#8217;ve found with kinesthetic learners that the arm movements are most important, less so with other learning styles (I found I&#8217;m an auditory learner, myself).  </p>
<p>I do have to agree that the pencil grip is most importan.  However, having taught extensively in both Kindergarten and Grade 3, this skill has to be properly taught in Kindergarten, it it does not appear that many teachers these days are paying attention to that particular skill.  By the time kids get to Grade 3 (or even Grade Two or Grade One) it&#8217;s often extremely difficult to change the ingrained pencil-grip style.  I finally gave up on it, after a decade of working with kids on it in Grade 3.  I instead showed them and made suggestions, but if they were resistant to changing it at that point, I just tried finally to work with them from there instead of concentrating on that problem.  Unfortunately, a lot of Kindergarten teachers are just passing out pencils and paying no attention at ALL to teaching correct pencil grip in the first place.  I taught it well at that age, as well as the turned paper, and my five-year-old students mastered it well.  Then I moved to Grade 3, where the same students I&#8217;d taught came through again.  By that time, their Britishand Australian  teachers in-between had put their papers straight on the desk, taught them a different style of printing, and I basically had to fix everything all over again.  But we did manage it!</em><strong></strong></p>
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		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://elementaryteacher.wordpress.com/2007/10/28/how-american-cursive-appears-to-the-british/#comment-1770</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 03:32:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elementaryteacher.wordpress.com/2007/10/28/how-american-cursive-appears-to-the-british/#comment-1770</guid>
		<description>This post reminds me of something I read about the British having difficulty differentiating (stereotypical) New York and Midwestern American accents.  (This may explain why many of the Brits&#039; affected American accents sound like bad Walter Winchell impersonations to me.)  

As a twenty-something, I will freely admit that the quality of American cursive writing has generally declined in younger generations.  I came across this post in looking up sights for improving my almost legendarily bad handwriting.  However, I think that the rise of computers and word processors would only receive part of the blame.  When the idea of teaching manuscript (un-joined/print) writing early to children before cursive came to prominence in the 60’s, there came a dearth of attention to proper hand writing technique.  As someone who had remedial education in hand writing in the mid to late 80’s I would say that they focused most upon my pencil/pen grip with a much lesser extent paid to my arm and paper positioning.  The importance of writing with the whole arm rather than finger scribbling was totally ignored.  I have since learned that these priorities may have been reversed (My improper pen grip seems to have been due, mostly, to the discomfort from scribbling letters with my fingers rather than using my whole arm to write).  To be fair, my teachers were also trying to correct my tendency to reverse letters like b and d and p and q (which they succeeded at) as well as my general inability to spell (which is still poor).  I have learned that modern theories of handwriting education in America often focuses upon correcting these issues before addressing bad writing in general.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post reminds me of something I read about the British having difficulty differentiating (stereotypical) New York and Midwestern American accents.  (This may explain why many of the Brits&#8217; affected American accents sound like bad Walter Winchell impersonations to me.)  </p>
<p>As a twenty-something, I will freely admit that the quality of American cursive writing has generally declined in younger generations.  I came across this post in looking up sights for improving my almost legendarily bad handwriting.  However, I think that the rise of computers and word processors would only receive part of the blame.  When the idea of teaching manuscript (un-joined/print) writing early to children before cursive came to prominence in the 60’s, there came a dearth of attention to proper hand writing technique.  As someone who had remedial education in hand writing in the mid to late 80’s I would say that they focused most upon my pencil/pen grip with a much lesser extent paid to my arm and paper positioning.  The importance of writing with the whole arm rather than finger scribbling was totally ignored.  I have since learned that these priorities may have been reversed (My improper pen grip seems to have been due, mostly, to the discomfort from scribbling letters with my fingers rather than using my whole arm to write).  To be fair, my teachers were also trying to correct my tendency to reverse letters like b and d and p and q (which they succeeded at) as well as my general inability to spell (which is still poor).  I have learned that modern theories of handwriting education in America often focuses upon correcting these issues before addressing bad writing in general.</p>
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		<title>By: Almost American</title>
		<link>http://elementaryteacher.wordpress.com/2007/10/28/how-american-cursive-appears-to-the-british/#comment-1678</link>
		<dc:creator>Almost American</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 23:56:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elementaryteacher.wordpress.com/2007/10/28/how-american-cursive-appears-to-the-british/#comment-1678</guid>
		<description>Thank you for confirming my sense that the approaches to teaching cursive are different in the US and Britain. 

I don&#039;t remember much time being spent on cursive when I was at school in the UK. I do, however, remember being required to use a fountain pen rather than a ballpoint pen in 6th grade and being told it was because a fountain pen would require us to be more precise in our handwriting - that writing with a ballpoint pen would lead to us being much sloppier writers. I do also remember learning the shapes of the letters in cursive, so I could at least read them, although I was not required to write that way. 

From 6th grade on we were expected to use pen rather than pencil for any work we were handing in to a teacher. I remember being surprised when I arrived in the US to find that college students often used pencil - from my cultural point of view that seemed childish. 

When I was teaching middle school technology classes (up until a couple of years ago) I did require my students to work on their touch typing. Our goal was 50 wpm - which is my own typing speed as a completely self-taught typist. My husband had a required typing class in high school and his typing speed is significantly faster - more like 80 wpm. 

One last thought on handwriting - I remember being home sick from school for a week when I was in eighth grade and deciding to change my handwriting. I wanted to make it much tidier and easier to read. In that one week I changed my style significantly. When my mother saw what I was doing she commented that she had always been taught that so long as your handwriting style was still changing then your personality was not yet set.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for confirming my sense that the approaches to teaching cursive are different in the US and Britain. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t remember much time being spent on cursive when I was at school in the UK. I do, however, remember being required to use a fountain pen rather than a ballpoint pen in 6th grade and being told it was because a fountain pen would require us to be more precise in our handwriting &#8211; that writing with a ballpoint pen would lead to us being much sloppier writers. I do also remember learning the shapes of the letters in cursive, so I could at least read them, although I was not required to write that way. </p>
<p>From 6th grade on we were expected to use pen rather than pencil for any work we were handing in to a teacher. I remember being surprised when I arrived in the US to find that college students often used pencil &#8211; from my cultural point of view that seemed childish. </p>
<p>When I was teaching middle school technology classes (up until a couple of years ago) I did require my students to work on their touch typing. Our goal was 50 wpm &#8211; which is my own typing speed as a completely self-taught typist. My husband had a required typing class in high school and his typing speed is significantly faster &#8211; more like 80 wpm. </p>
<p>One last thought on handwriting &#8211; I remember being home sick from school for a week when I was in eighth grade and deciding to change my handwriting. I wanted to make it much tidier and easier to read. In that one week I changed my style significantly. When my mother saw what I was doing she commented that she had always been taught that so long as your handwriting style was still changing then your personality was not yet set.</p>
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		<title>By: elementaryteacher</title>
		<link>http://elementaryteacher.wordpress.com/2007/10/28/how-american-cursive-appears-to-the-british/#comment-1677</link>
		<dc:creator>elementaryteacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 21:16:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elementaryteacher.wordpress.com/2007/10/28/how-american-cursive-appears-to-the-british/#comment-1677</guid>
		<description>Nick, I think teachers are some of the main beneficiaries of when students do learn cursive, because they are reading all of it.  It used to be when I was in Grade 7 (in 1967) that touch typing was also a required course (getting students up to 35-40 wpm, enough to type their own papers in high school).  Every high school student had their own typewriter at home.  These days they seem to teach NEITHER cursive (nor correct printing), nor touch typing in computer class!

Thank you for adding your observations.

Eileen</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick, I think teachers are some of the main beneficiaries of when students do learn cursive, because they are reading all of it.  It used to be when I was in Grade 7 (in 1967) that touch typing was also a required course (getting students up to 35-40 wpm, enough to type their own papers in high school).  Every high school student had their own typewriter at home.  These days they seem to teach NEITHER cursive (nor correct printing), nor touch typing in computer class!</p>
<p>Thank you for adding your observations.</p>
<p>Eileen</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://elementaryteacher.wordpress.com/2007/10/28/how-american-cursive-appears-to-the-british/#comment-1674</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 08:18:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://elementaryteacher.wordpress.com/2007/10/28/how-american-cursive-appears-to-the-british/#comment-1674</guid>
		<description>Dear Eileen,

I teach 15 to 18 year olds.  They are nothing like Thai kids, the handwriting varies massively.

I have started a new school year and the students are so much better at writing this year.  My role has changed too; my lessons are like oral communication, so I focus on listening and speaking skills with only a little writing.

I would like to teach them writing, but it is not my duty and they are probably set in any way they have by now.  I am content just trying to get them to enjoy English.  I would teach them fancy capitals and curls, but these kids seem to respond little to the prospect of a game, so there is not that much that can excite them.

Thank you for an interesting discussion.

Kind Regards,
Nick</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Eileen,</p>
<p>I teach 15 to 18 year olds.  They are nothing like Thai kids, the handwriting varies massively.</p>
<p>I have started a new school year and the students are so much better at writing this year.  My role has changed too; my lessons are like oral communication, so I focus on listening and speaking skills with only a little writing.</p>
<p>I would like to teach them writing, but it is not my duty and they are probably set in any way they have by now.  I am content just trying to get them to enjoy English.  I would teach them fancy capitals and curls, but these kids seem to respond little to the prospect of a game, so there is not that much that can excite them.</p>
<p>Thank you for an interesting discussion.</p>
<p>Kind Regards,<br />
Nick</p>
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