How American Cursive Appears to the British
I have a couple of quick, interesting handwriting anecdotes to share.
Years ago, one of the British teachers at our school shared with me that she couldn’t understand why all the American teachers’ handwriting looked the same. She told me that she later discovered that we actually have handwriting class in America, where we are all taught the American cursive (extremely different from modern British “joined-together” writing). Apparently in Britain, they let each child evolve their own system of writing, forming, and joining letters. Of course, Americans do see much variation when they look at other Americans’ writing. But these variations are not apparent to British who are not used to looking at American writing.
Letter written in England in 1894, showing handwriting typical of the period, and still very similar to today’s North American cursive writing (in terms of slant, letter formation, and connections). Image from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handwriting
Below is a typical sample of today’s modern British “joined-together” writing (especially in terms of slant and letter formation):
Typical Modern British Writing, image from:
http://benzographology.co.uk/images/sample1.jpg
One British friend shared with me this evening that someone she knows is giving a poetry class in Britain to some middle-aged American ladies. When they turned in their poems, the British teacher was convinced that one lady was doing all the homework for the others, writing everything and giving it to the other ladies to turn in. My British friend (having known me, and seen how we teach cursive and work on handwriting) explained all this to the poetry teacher. Had the teacher not mentioned this to my friend, she would have remained convinced that the middle-aged American ladies were all cheating!
Eileen
Tags: , American Ladies Cheating?, Australia, England, Ireland, Penmanship and Cheating, Scotland, Wales
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November 8, 2007 at 6:05 pm
[...] elementary teacher in the Middle East” has a teacher’s view on the difference between British and American handwriting. Years ago, one of the British teachers at our school shared with me that she couldn’t understand [...]
January 13, 2009 at 7:25 pm
First of all, I was taught to say ‘joined-up’ rather than ‘joined-together’. The American phrasing sounds absurd to my ears.
Secondly, your writing may be beautiful, but your grammar needs to be brushed up – “Of course, Americans do see much variation” the much should be ‘a lot of’.
To be honest, I don’t understand your attitude. Why is it good for everyone’s writing to look the same? We got rid of that attitude decades ago in the UK. I heard a story once about a little girl who changed schools and then got punished at her new school because (obviously) she had a style of writing that was different to the one that particular school taught. Variation is the spice of life and I would have thought that you presumably being an American and belonging to a culture that always talks about how multi-cultural America is and how diverse the cities are, etc, etc, would view variety as something to be proud of and encouraged, and conformity and uniformity as things to be abhorred!
In the UK there are books that are used to encourage children to develop their handwriting and to develop good muscle control and to learn to follow a flowing line. Myself and all the other kids who had to do them hated them. They were long, dull pieces of work and ultimately had no real effect. We did them and then went back to our own particular writing styles. And what’s wrong with that? Handwriting can tell someone who knows about such things a lot about their personality, not to mention that it is always interesting to look at another person’s writing and to see how they write and what they do differently.
Furthermore, I have taught in several schools with Americans and worked with Americans in other aspects of life. Never once have I had a reason to croon over their writing or to notice any particular aspect about it – I have yet to see evidence of their having learned cursive at some point in their life. I would suggest that only SOME schools in America teach cursive or, at any rate, pay as much attention to it as you seem to and that the students themselves, when required, produce the cursive writing but then go back to whatever style suits them when they have any other reason to write.
I would also suggest that a blanket rule does not suit every child. From your articles and from comments made by other teachers or parents, it seems that everyone is trying to do what those in the teaching profession are far too often guilty of – creating one rule to suit all. Of course some children will take to cursive and produce beautiful pieces of writing only for their printed work to be an ugly mass of shapeless squiggles. Just like some children will flawlessly print page after page of work only to prefer it over cursive when cursive is introduced and will, perhaps, even find the printed word faster to write than the joined one. Children, like adults, have their preferences and find particular methods easier than others. To suggest that one and all should sit at their desks with their pages angled across their red tape clutching their fountain pens and staring at a mass of incomprehensible lines on the board and figure out for themselves how to re-create that apparently effortless scrawl, well, to my mind that’s akin to sitting me down with a canvas and a paintbrush and asking me to re-create the Mona Lisa. Children go to school to be taught. What’s the point of going if the teacher isn’t even going to teach them?
Incidentally, I agree. The anecdote about the British teacher is silly. I don’t believe she seriously thought one woman was doing all the work. But still, I’m sure teachers in America have often made mistakes and expressed unfounded accusations against their students. That sort of thing happens all over the world.
May 28, 2009 at 2:35 am
Unfortunately, Fiona is a typically egotistical subject of the Crown…whereas, I am a humble citizen of the United States, and curiously proud of my hard-won independence. Thanks Fiona for reinforcing my stereotype that the English et al are as little brats brooding over their American counterparts 200 year old fight against tyranny and a social stratification that was frankly as absurd as one can imagine.
As an educator, I could crucify your grammar, syntax and verbose verbiage…alliteration intended. It never ceases to amaze me how Americans are maligned in so many ways in British television and the media. Alas, I have no other choice but to disdain you from afar. I am amazed that such a “progressive” society is so inundated with laws, regulations, etc. In the United States, I can go to many parks free of charge, drive where I will, carry a gun with a permit of course, and frankly move about unfettered by the threat of some PC lurking behind. Oh what the heck…I’ll rip apart your grammar…
“a lot of” is substandard…was it not Shakespeare who said “much ado about nothing? Perhaps I have that wrong…I dunno. (colloquialism meaning: “I don’t know.”). A lot of ado about nothing just sounds weird. Have another drink.
“…grammar needs to be brushed up.” What the heck? Is “grammar” a horse?
“We got rid of that attitude…” Holy cats! “Got” has got to go! Ooops…I copied you.
You seem to have a love affair with the word, so I guess it is hopeless. Oh well.
“I would have thought that you presumably being an American and belonging to a culture that always talks about how multi-cultural America is and how diverse the cities are, etc, etc, would view variety as something to be proud of and encouraged, and conformity and uniformity as things to be abhorred!”
I honestly can’t say what to do with this sentence. It is replete with passive voice, and nastily constructed prose of some sort. Work it baby…work it…you need help my Dear. Wunderbar.
“Myself and all the other kids who had to do them hated them.” Oh my. What are they teaching you in Britain? This sentence is followed by a poorly constructed one lacking a clearly defined subject…among other things. Who is “myself?”
“We did them…” Did them? Did what? This sounds decidedly kinky…what’s going on in your head Fiona? Oh wait…that’s just it…NOTHING!!!
Are you serious? Holy cats. I need a drink. Oh wait…I don’t drink…this can be a problem.
“And what’s wrong with that?” Holy crow…you started a sentence with “And?” I am now thoroughly convinced that you are an idiot, and I need to get a life so-to-speak and stop wasting my time correcting your abysmal grammar.
Did I mention that you are a hypocrite? You are a hypocrite.
I’m done…you need to think about intensive therapy (I know I will after reading the remainder of your “got blog” as I have come to call it.)
January 20, 2009 at 9:04 pm
Quoting David Mehegan of The Boston Globe, in his article on handwriting, “However much you studied your Palmer, though, your “hand” was distinctive – as personal as your voice or laugh.”
His interesting complete article on the history of handwriting and where it is headed can be read at:
http://www.boston.com/ae/books/articles/2009/01/19/cursive_foiled_again/?s_campaign=8315
Eileen
January 20, 2009 at 9:41 pm
Fiona,
Thanks for reading my post. In America, we use neither the phrases “joined-up,” NOR “joined-together.” These must be regionalisms from different parts of Britain.
The reason for everyone studying the same system of writing and practicing until they are good at it is NOT to make everyone’s writing identical. It is to have a common standard where members of the society don’t have to “decipher” each others’ writing, and therefore it saves a lot of TIME and PREVENTS ERRORS in business correspondence. It is not a question of being beautiful, it is a question of consistency for clarity’s sake. If the British choose to spend triple the time deciphering things because that is their cultural preference for individualty, I am not criticizing it; I am merely pointing out the DIFFERENCE.
I think kids hate what their teacher hates (in terms of subject matter), and love what their teacher loves. It sounds as though you did not have a handwriting teacher who had a passion for her subject.
The British attitude toward handwriting is obviously a strong cultural difference from the Americans (witness your strong reaction to this post).
I don’t know which schools you taught in, or which states, or the ages of the teachers you are speaking of. I am in my mid-50’s and am finding that more and more Americans in their 20’s (teachers) don’t even know how to read or write cursive themselves! I never said Americans handwriting is more BEAUTIFUL. I said it was more UTILITARIAN. Witness the utilization of Carolingian Miniscule (if you know what that is) from the time of Charlemagne, which is the basis of all European typefaces today. That was far more standardized in handwritten form than today’s cursive is!
Also don’t forget that in common usage, NO ONE uses their best writing. That is more time consuming and reserved for more special occasions. Beautiful and complicated capitals are reserved for special occassions. My kids absolutely LOVE learning these things, as it makes them feel grown up. But then, I do have a true passion for my subject. Everyone’s handwriting gets destroyed in universtiy because of the need to take notes quickly. But once it’s in your mind, it can be picked up quickly if so desired. Doctors in EVERY country have notoriously bad handwriting–not because they weren’t taught how to write, but because their handwriting has been destroyed by having to write so MUCH very fast for so long. By the way, if you ever need to read a doctor’s handwriting, just ask a pharmacist to read it for you.
It’s clear from your comments that you have neither taught cursive, nor mastered it yourself. Any decent teacher does not grade students on “neatness” of their handwriting, but instead on CORRECT SLANT and CORRECT PROPORTION OF LETTERS IN RELATION TO EACH OTHER. “Shapeless forms” as you mention above would have a poor grade NOT due to “messiness” but because of not studying correct letter formation. In the two decades I have taught cursive, and the HUNDREDS of students I have taught (both left and right-handed) I have had exactly TWO students who had trouble.
And YES, in OVERSEAS Amercian schools where we are, YES INDEED ONE TEACHER DOES DO ALL THE CURSIVE TEACHING. IN fact, this is even more necessary now because so many TEACHERS are starting not to know cursive themselves. So my kids leave Grade 3 with all the cursive they will ever need (at a full adult standard they can be really proud of) since I know they will probably never again have the opportunity to have anyone else teach them. I feel these students are really lucky, and may be some of the last groups to learn cursive well. When I leave the school I know it could be finsihed. But they will know it well enough to teach their children if they wish.
Eileen
May 28, 2009 at 2:49 am
Hello there…
I just happened to be searching for some penmanship samples to share with my twelve year old who is struggling a bit with his cursive when I came across your blog. Anyway…thanks for the entertainment! You have a well-established blog, and it is professionally done–in spite of the “Fiona’s” of this world. She needs a man. Can I say that?
Take care,
KJE
June 6, 2009 at 3:38 pm
Wow, thank you!
–Eileen
January 27, 2009 at 5:11 pm
This was posted a long time ago, but I just stumbled across it when I googled “cursive.”
I’m 22 years old and I had cursive classes in my grammar school. I did go to Catholic schools though, which are known for being ‘bastions of penmanship’. It was required through all my years of education to write in cursive, and I find that I still use it, even in a work environment. I do think it’s beautiful, but to me it’s also a faster way to write. Why remove the pen from the surface of the paper when you can join one letter to the next in a continuous motion? Seems more efficient to me.
Also, regarding grammar, the ‘much’ IS proper English. I ran into issues between American English and Irish English when I went to college in Ireland. You’d be surprised how vehement people can be regarding the placement of commas! (Or maybe you wouldn’t, seeing as you live overseas.)
That’s my two cents.
February 7, 2009 at 3:45 pm
Having lived both sides of the pond, maybe I can provide something enlightening.
The one thing that is very clear is that British handwriting is much more “modern” than American. By that, I mean that American handwriting is taught strictly as a continuous script that is actually pretty fast to write because you almost never raise your pen from the page, whereas my British teachers detested any kind of loop and broke the script after descending letters such as g and y and wrote their r pretty much as it looks in typography, not the heavily stylized (but quicker to write) American loop that can almost be confused with n if sloppily done.
Of course, the end outcome of a situation in which British handwriting is designed for clarity and American handwriting designed for speed is fairly predictable. The average British handwriting is usually pretty legible while today’s average American handwriting has broken down into many different types of equally horrific scrawl. Luckily, American students are universally required to type their papers and assignments. At the rate we’re going Americans will completely forget how to write with a pen at all, as it’s hardly necessary any more with iPhones, eChecks and universities and schools going so far down the typed assignment path that they have their students buy MathType rather than write out equations by hand.
Nobody does the traditional American boilerplate handwriting anymore, except for people born before about 1950, and nobody born after about 1930 knows how to do it properly.
February 8, 2009 at 8:31 pm
DBX,
I appreciate your interesting comments. I read about two weeks ago a new article concerning what has happened to American cursive. Apparently since the Bush administration took over, with all the testing that’s been done during the past eight years, the time for it had to come from somewhere. So one place its come is out of cursive-leaning time. The article I read said cursive was already in decline, but that this testing really accelerated that trend.
I recently told my class they will probably be among the last classes to be taught cursive, but I have taught them well. They leave my third-grade class with cursive script that will serve them well as adults.
I have no doubt that American writing is descending into illegible scratching. Proper time has to be devoted to teaching and learning it. It takes about two months, one period a day to teach it well (the whole alphabet, with capital and small letters). But it needs the rest of the year to be reinforced and to learn all the correct connections, for example between “b” and “n,” or between “w” and another letter.
If you read “Handwriting in America, A Cultural History,” by Tamara Plakins Thornton (a fascinating book), you will see that American cursive was developed for speed, neatness AND uniformity throughout the country, as it was the business script of its day–in the days before typewriters. It was developed for NEATNESS as WELL as SPEED (leaving out the old curly-cues). However, today’s students are not being taught correctly at all.
Eileen
February 16, 2009 at 8:51 am
Hello,
Let me state something first. I am British.
I would like to tell you about my handwriting:
My earliest memory of handwriting is watching the magic pen on Sesame Street (if you know the proper name of it, I would like ot know). It was writing in the air, but a little light would go on when the tip was on the ‘paper’, and a voice would say “all the way up and round and down”. Happy days.
My other memory is of being taught ‘joined-up’ writing in (what you call) junior high school. I found it difficult, but prevaled and eventually was told off for having ridiculously elaborate handwriting. My writing speed was slow and, though joined, featured many unnecessary curles; I was told to “calm it down”.
Since then my writing has become an unusual mixture of joined and unjoined, but has kept a clear style. I have been told that my handwriting is elegant and really neat, like a girl’s (which is not a bad thing). I do find that, if writing for long periods, my style does sometimes suffer from the fatigue, but it is still clearly legible.
I am now teaching in East Asia and you would not believe some of the things I have seen. I believe they have attempted to teach cursive writing, but I have found that many students have bearly grasped the basic alphabet. I never thought such simple letters could be deformed in such a horrific way. I would like to help them, but I have found that my writing on a blackboard is an ugly affair. One of the students asked me to write true cursive on the blackboard and, after deciphering the word (as it was a term I didn’t know), I found it a little tricky. They were impressed, because they didn’t know any better, but I realised that I too have lost the skills I was once taught. I would like to make a comment on the slightly incorrect use of punctuation, capital letters for emphasis and occasional poor grammar, however, no matter how fun it is to throw some more wood on the fire, I will keep my trap shut as I have found my own skills have begun to dwindle since I came here.
I know this is a slightly irrelevant post, but I thought I would share my view and offer a moment like when someone interrupts an argument to offer tea and biscuits. I would like to ask about lower case Y’s. I found my students are taught to write them with two straight lines, one meeting the centre of the other. I write Y’s with a curled top, like a lower case U, and then a long tail down. Should I correct them or is their method just as right?
Regards, Nick.
February 16, 2009 at 5:13 pm
Dear Nick,
I want to say that I really appreciate all your comments.
Years ago, when I was 18 and in my first semester of college, I had a freind from Thailand who wrote the most beautiful Spencerian Script I’ve ever seen (in fact, the only person I ever knew who could write Spencerian Script–I don’t even know it myself). When I asked him how he ever learned to write that way, he told me that you couldn’t even pass English class in Thailand unless you were writing that well. I am shocked beyond belief to hear how much things have deteriorated, as here I was still imagining it was the same. When I knew my friend, it was 1973. At any rate, I don’t think you should be embarrassed at ALL of your writing! Furthermore, you sound like quite an artistic person.
You didn’t mention what age kids you are teaching and if it is you who is teaching the writing, or if you have the kids in a later class after they have already been taught. I have found that there is more than one style of cursive. If you attempt to teach one style, then the books and desk tapes “change” on you, and then the kids ask why it’s different. After a while, I gave up on that, and just wrote my own set of letters (with the style I was taught as a kid). It is pretty similar with some very small unimportant differences. Anyway, I photocopied it, and taped it on to each student’s desk for reference (and sometimes I glue one into their assignment notebooks, in case they need to look at it at home, and have no one to ask). I don’t think it really matters how you teach the y. The main thing is teach them to do it well, whatever style you teach them. Teach them to form letters clearly and in good proportion to each other, and they wiill have a cursive script to serve them the rest of their lives. Explain there are a few other cursive styles, so sometimes they will see letters formed a bit differently. That doesn’t mean it’s wrong, it only means it’s a different style.
I tell my kids if they master cursive sufficiently, that in the third term I’ll teach them some very fancy captials with curls and they nearly do backflips for me because they are so excited to learn fancy writing. I bet your kids would be the same. I teach eight-yearr-olds. What age do you teach?
If you teach in an American school, the slant is very important in America. It should be slanted to the right. Backslanting is never acceptable in America. I think the slant comes a lot from the culture. It is interesting to see how French slant has changed. Most French seem to be writing more vertically these days (like most British seem to write), whereas in North Africa, backslanting is most common. I think this expresses the culture. American culture is very open, British and French culture is more reserved, and North African culture is nearly paranoid with secrecy (I know, I live there).
I want to tell you I appreciated the tone of your letter, and if you were here, I’d sit down with you to have the tea and biscuits!
Eileen
June 7, 2009 at 8:18 am
Dear Eileen,
I teach 15 to 18 year olds. They are nothing like Thai kids, the handwriting varies massively.
I have started a new school year and the students are so much better at writing this year. My role has changed too; my lessons are like oral communication, so I focus on listening and speaking skills with only a little writing.
I would like to teach them writing, but it is not my duty and they are probably set in any way they have by now. I am content just trying to get them to enjoy English. I would teach them fancy capitals and curls, but these kids seem to respond little to the prospect of a game, so there is not that much that can excite them.
Thank you for an interesting discussion.
Kind Regards,
Nick
June 6, 2009 at 11:43 pm
I just now found this post when doing a search online for different types of handwriting. Is it just me or does it seem to anyone else that a nice style of handwriting is going out the window here in the U.S. as well? I teach German at a high school in Illinois. When trying to grade student work, I consistently find that I have to mark off points simply because I can’t read what they’ve written. I actually wish that we would once again emphasize handwriting like we used to for my sake and for the sake of my students’ grades!
June 8, 2009 at 9:16 pm
Nick, I think teachers are some of the main beneficiaries of when students do learn cursive, because they are reading all of it. It used to be when I was in Grade 7 (in 1967) that touch typing was also a required course (getting students up to 35-40 wpm, enough to type their own papers in high school). Every high school student had their own typewriter at home. These days they seem to teach NEITHER cursive (nor correct printing), nor touch typing in computer class!
Thank you for adding your observations.
Eileen
June 8, 2009 at 11:56 pm
Thank you for confirming my sense that the approaches to teaching cursive are different in the US and Britain.
I don’t remember much time being spent on cursive when I was at school in the UK. I do, however, remember being required to use a fountain pen rather than a ballpoint pen in 6th grade and being told it was because a fountain pen would require us to be more precise in our handwriting – that writing with a ballpoint pen would lead to us being much sloppier writers. I do also remember learning the shapes of the letters in cursive, so I could at least read them, although I was not required to write that way.
From 6th grade on we were expected to use pen rather than pencil for any work we were handing in to a teacher. I remember being surprised when I arrived in the US to find that college students often used pencil – from my cultural point of view that seemed childish.
When I was teaching middle school technology classes (up until a couple of years ago) I did require my students to work on their touch typing. Our goal was 50 wpm – which is my own typing speed as a completely self-taught typist. My husband had a required typing class in high school and his typing speed is significantly faster – more like 80 wpm.
One last thought on handwriting – I remember being home sick from school for a week when I was in eighth grade and deciding to change my handwriting. I wanted to make it much tidier and easier to read. In that one week I changed my style significantly. When my mother saw what I was doing she commented that she had always been taught that so long as your handwriting style was still changing then your personality was not yet set.